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Merv Griffin and Johnny Carson spent years as bitter rivals on competing talk shows.
During a recent episode of the “Nostalgia Tonight with Joe Sibilia” podcast, Steve Randisi, author of the book, “The Merv Griffin Show: The Inside Story,” spoke about the history behind the show, as well as the host’s competitive relationship with Carson.
“It began, believe it or not, in 1962, when they were both starting their respective talk show careers on NBC,” Randisi explained. “What happened was they were working for the same company, and they were on the same network…they were using the same studio, but there was this competition for getting the big-name guests.”
At the time, Carson had just began his tenure as the host of “The Tonight Show,” taking over after Jack Paar’s departure, and Griffin was hosting “The Merv Griffin Show.”
Griffin and Carson competed during the early days of their talk shows. (CBS via Getty Images; Raimondo Borea/Gartenberg Media Enterprises/Getty Images)
According to the author, Griffin “always had a desire to be a talk show host” and after a chance meeting with Paar while hosting the game show, “Play Your Hunch,” Griffin began guest hosting the “Tonight Show.” Following Paar’s retirement from the show, Griffin hosted the show many times.
“He did exceptionally well during the two weeks that he was on. He got very high ratings,” Randisi said. “And NBC offered him his own show after they had already hired Johnny, and they figured, well we’ll keep Merv in the bullpen in case Johnny doesn’t work out. We’ll have this guy ready to go on because he’s already proven himself.”
“What happened was they were working for the same company, and they on the same network…they were using the same studio, but there was this competition for getting the big-name guests.”
Randisi points out that at the time, “Carson did not have the status” or “the stature that he would have a few years later” when he became known as the king of late night, “so they were fighting over guests.”
This is where Griffin’s history as a former actor in Hollywood gave him a slight advantage, as “he knew all the great stars,” such as Judy Garland and John Wayne, whereas “Johnny by contrast was a game show host.”
Griffin’s history as an actor gave him a leg up when it came to booking guests. (Ron Ganley/NBCU Photo Bank/NBCUniversal via Getty Images via Getty Images)
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“There was a…suit that was in the union over George Carlin, because George Carlin had a contract with Griffin, and he wanted to go on ‘The Tonight Show,’ and Merv said, ‘No, you can’t do that. We have a contract with you,'” the author said.
He described another instance in which a “Tonight Show” producer bleeped Griffin’s name out when comedian, Mickey Shaughnessy, mentioned it while on the show, adding, “that didn’t sit too well with Merv.”
Randisi explained that while the rivalry “intensified” when Griffin moved from NBC to CBS, it simmered down “in the late 70s and 80s.”
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“They’re much older now. They don’t have anything to prove anymore. They don’t have to fight over guests. They certainly don’t have to fight over money. And a friendship evolved.”
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Once they developed a friendship, Carson invited Griffin to be a guest on his show three times, the night Griffin’s show ended in September 1986, marking the first time he appeared on the “Tonight Show” since 1962.
Carson invited Griffin to be a guest on “The Tonight Show” three times. (Gary Null/NBCU Photo Bank/NBCUniversal via Getty Images via Getty Images )
“There’s one ‘Tonight Show’ where Johnny was doing a bit at the desk, and he was kind of poking fun at various entertainers, and he held up a card, and he said, ‘No, I’m not going to do this one.’ He goes, ‘He’s a friend of mine now. I can’t do it.’ And it was something probably a little bit maybe insulting to Merv, and Johnny didn’t do it.”
The connection between the two talk show hosts goes even deeper, as Griffin went on to hire Carson’s brother, Dick, who previously directed the “Tonight Show,” as the director for “The Merv Griffin Show” in 1970, when the show relocated to California.
His brother continued working on the show until it came to an end in 1986, and later went on to direct “Wheel of Fortune” with Griffin.
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“There’s one ‘Merv Griffin Show’ from 1972…where the guest on Merv’s panel that day was Doc Severinsen, and as a surprise, Johnny Carson came out and wished Merv luck with his new show,” Randisi said, adding this was when his show went into syndication. “And then Dick Carson came on the panel so it looked like a family reunion.”
Carson hosted the show for 30 years, from 1962 to 1992. (Alice S. Hall/NBCU Photo Bank)
Carson hosted “The Tonight Show” for 30 years, from October 1962 until May 1992, and in that time helped launch the careers of many well-known comedians, including Jay Leno, Ellen DeGeneres, Robin Williams and others.
According to the book, “Love Johnny Carson,” written by Carson aficionado Mark Malkoff, with David Ritz, his decision to end his tenure on the show came after “Saturday Night Live” spent years making jokes at his expense.
“Leno, a guest that night, overheard Johnny in the hallway saying, ‘If they are going to make fun of me, it’s time to go,'” Malkoff wrote about a May 1991 taping after Carson received word that “SNL” was planning to do another sketch parodying him.
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